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PS3 vs. Xbox 360-A Game Developer's Perspective [22736]

 
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ggrobot
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: PS3 vs. Xbox 360-A Game Developer's Perspective [22736] Reply with quote

hardCOREware.net has posted pretty interesting article called PS3 vs. Xbox 360-A Game Developer's Perspective. They talked with an experienced PS3/Xbox 360/PC/Xbox/PS2 programmer as he shares his thoughts on both next-gen consoles. Here's a taster:

Being a video game developer (I develop for both, Playstatio

Read more...

Source: GGMania headlines
GGMania.com - Daily Gaming and Tech news
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djRom
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting. It will be intersting to see how all that affects the end result of who has more market share.
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darknothing
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont think it will at all..
playstation heads will think this and this alone

playstation better xbox 360 sucks!
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Safer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/angry panda =_=

I'm not the usual to complain, but this guy is... yeah... he's a 360 fanboy since he disregard some commonly known things and somethings he probably left out in the process. I'm just gonna deal with the technological part for starters as I will annihlate this so called "assessment" of power between the systems and this mans own justfication of that he "was right to chose the 360 as good development platform!"

So, yeah - it's easier to develop for a core architechture based on the same x86 standard we have for our PCs so the language and kernel capabilities are far from diffrent. If you have made a game for the PC, it it's not hard to make the code compatible with such hardware (and as the 360 uses a DirectX extentsion it's even easier I will assume).

The PS3 however is based on the Cell, a non symetrical element based architechture. Programming for this very dynamic and unusal system is not easy at first. But I belive that when developers can untap it's power it will be hard to rival. (I speak here as hardware and software specialist not as a fanboy, thank you). And will explain in detail why a bit further down.

Trying to adapt the same code to two totally diffrent hardware platforms have never been easy.

What I trust here is that what a developer says, and gamer says or whoever speaks up in a voice of this "console war" is blatantly obvious information.

Personally I would rather have a go with the Ps3 since I'm very facinated by the Cell. Razz However, one might be a bit thoughful about the choice of hardware. I am impressed by their technology, yet the blatantly obvious question "why make it harder then needed" is there. The answer is probably conceptual goals, technology and some perverted greed since they have for a long tried to get something of their very own into our homes.

Graphics (let's see if I can handle it this correctly); While the eDRAM logic saves time from the CPU running effects like AB, AA and z-buffering, it still uses a unfied memory architecture to share CPU and GPU offloads. In other words - a really cool way to give insane amounts of bandwith between the busses which simplyfies the coding endevour to implment a graphic effect for example since it runs with the rest of code through the triple-core based general purpose CPU.

Now contra, the PS3 uses what can probably be called a unified CPU archtechture where many parts of the processing is spread among diffrent PE's (Processing element - roughly the equillent of a "core") which by themselves are loaded and can handle multiple threads of code in a local memory storage within the PE itself.
Here comes the interesting thing, the PE's work against a bus sytem known as the EIB which uncompasses all the PE units and work towards the memory. This good as the PE's can interchange processes (if they designated towards a specific purpose - in exampel AA) and the "ring", as the EIB can be descibed as, can more effectivly work towards the memory without deadlocks. Regardless though, the maximum transfer bandwith between the EIB and it's member PE' is deterimined by the XDR memory it's coupled with.

My idea of this is that Sony is touting a developer kit which strongly focues on threading and prioritising the processes within the EIB to offhandle excessive use of memory. In it self it's a flaw, but handle correctly, the Cell is fracking monster.

So to implemtent for example alpha blending into the graphics engine you must more or less dedicate a whole thread to this instead of simply putting it into the main code thread as you would do with the 360 to produce the same effect. This thread, apart from being run through a PE would then also be lined into the GPU. Easy huh? Or perphas no - it's far more advanced but in the progress also far more complicated to deal with.

Summa sumaris; Hardware vice they are diffrent, very diffrent. Performance vise? Depends on the your monkeys.

As a last note; Why even begin to compare first year games from a new system? Atleast half of them was ports. The PS3 will probably not have a better dog year but since many large and attractive franchies are synonymous of the Playstation brand they will probably boost the system a good deal if they arrive early.

Since I got the 360 and since I also will get a Ps3 when Europe gets it's share of black monolithic love to stand beside the 360 which finaly is reciving some good games - I see no point at all in justifying this digression into subjective nonsense in their choice of developing platform since in it's own is allways the games that get's the system where it is.

I'm rather neutral to what (the system that is) I play, I'm however ruthless towards incompetent assessments. Why not give the whole view WHY it's harder to develop, WHY it's harder to master the Cell for example. Is it so hard to write a half technical essay about the diffrences without touting some ero-corporate propaganda?

*End-bah!*
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miglaugh
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My head nearly exploded looking at the size of your post. I'm suprised if anyone reads it.

Instead of the devs crying about the tools available for ps3, why don't they make their own and then license the tools out to other companies. If there is a void to fill, fill it you creeps. The homebrew scene might even end up crafting thier own tools anyways, because of the whole "otherOS" feature. I could see an XNA type of thing come out of all this.

If I have some free time next summer I'll prolly play around with linux when i pick up one of the suckers. Nothing sounds geekier or more fascinating then coding up some openGL demos on a console... haha.

I know it'll never happen, but if the game companies started supporting linux as a game platform, then you'd have the best of both worlds: pc games and console games.
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Safer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mig: I was a wee bit annoyed... Razz And I would surprised if any one read it at all.

Regarding Linux games, one of the larger and faster growing MMO games, Eve, is getting itself a Linux client in some form as I understand it at least which is a positive thing as I among others have been asking nicely for it since the realese.
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Ravenheart
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the developer is lazy, yeah PS3 sux Rolling Eyes i think SONY once again are the pionners in what will become the future. Cuz back in 1994 when PS1 hit no one wanted even to think about 3D graphics "its 10x harder, its more expensive!!!!" bla bla bla so now every game that comes out is 3D why don't the developers complain now?
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Safer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hx: Thanks ^_^

In it self the PE (I prefer to just abrivate them as Processing Elements as the Synergetic Processing Element term brings nothing more than more confusion Razz) logic is not a bad idea and I belive that EIB outform is neat but is weighed down simply by poor bandwidth to the memory.

A memory bus that is able to handle 8 simoultainious transfers between its cache and the PE's is a quite a interesting endevour and should be further developed.
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devilhood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The argument from a lazy or pressurized developer will always be based around what they're used to.
I'm sure there are developers out there that are extremely excited about the Cell architecture.

Cry baby thumb twiddlers! bring back the Amiga! Laughing
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v1m
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sony's sold well over 200 million Playstation 1 and 2s. It's the name the world trusts in gaming. Microsoft is the name the world generally hates.

A year from now with PS3 production ramped up and the 360 having reached full saturation, this coder's little Nostradamus act will seem even more amusing.

Ironically, he may be looking for work by that time, too, as outsourcing devours more and more U.S. coding jobs.
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El_Coyote
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meh i just want a pc remake of cannon fodder... and 2d thanks.. none of that pos 3d Razz
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xxxx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cannon fodder, lol. i played that on both amiga and pc Very Happy

I don't care what anyone has to say about ps3 anymore. I'm getting a xbox 360 because it's more afforadable and does everything 'I' need and more. Sony is too expensive and just too late. But Sony is known to treat their gamers well too, me being one. I have every confidence their console will do well and the interest will be there. The PS market is saturated with addons and stuff that werent even dreamed of when it came out. Not like they have ever really suffered.

People are not gonna be interested in developing for it? pfffff that's just stupid. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618430p1.html
PS3 doesn't have a bad lineup either. 30 some games! Not bad as far as I'm concerned.

If people are foolish enough to keep putting "hundreds" of dollars into PC's every six months to play current games, whats the problem? Look at the girlies that went and got a 8800 while they just bought a 78/7900s! Gimme a break. Get both and/or you know you will! End of story.
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